136
Suggestions / Re: Please make it possible to quickly shorten tying equipment
« on: December 02, 2020, 05:06:27 PM »
...or to lengths of chosen feet, alternatively.
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137
Suggestions / Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
« on: December 02, 2020, 12:00:57 AM »I looked at the leather post of yours, but i dont think its basically the same with my concerns.
Oh I'm sorry. I was staring at this:
- leather
Gameplay.
First, the tanning process... de hair first? or first tan and dehair afterwards? i mix it up repeatedly... For newbies, i think it is really confusing. The reason is, when you dehair first, you dont get to see that information in middle-steps of the tanning process.(its just a tanning skin) So if you are unsure if you dehaired the skin(For example, because you are tanning multiple stuff and also furs of the same species) you have to dehair it again(which takes many days (10+) for big hides, to be sure it becomes leather. Otherwise you dont know the outcome. oh, ofcourse you must waste tanning material like fat or bark again.
For new players, who read that here: clean, dehair, tan. Little workaround: chose different sites for leather tanning than for your fur tanning.
My leather post was, I admit, a little comprehensive. But there was this conclusion:
My reasoning apart from what already been said:
a) one could instantly recognize which animal skins become leather and which fur
b) currently one cannot distinguish a dehaired "tanning elk skin" and a fur bearing "tanning elk skin" before the whole tanning process is finished
Now I'll answer the other part:
Second, give it an actual use? leather clothing seems to be somewhat extremely underpowered. i think it should at least be a good trade between protection and weight penalty especially on warm days. At the time, it even takes a lot more work to aquire it, yet being inferior in all aspects to fur(ignoring the little point dmg advantage).
Even a very strong character will not chose the big penalty of the additional weight that comes with the little protection.
Everyone who has worn leather IRL knows that it is very comfortable, even feeling like a second skin which does not hinder movement much. at least regarding trousers, shoes and shirts. The actual "armour" items should be clumsier and heavier, but also with better protection(speaking of the cuirass, armguards and shinguards)
Perhaps resemble that aspect by reducing the weight?
and, what happened to the boots??...
I agree that leather is too encumbering compared to fur. And if one aims to make protective leather pieces, certainly they could be made harder and thicker and even better than 'just' fur. And heavier. It's just the perceived anachronism that can be in the way.
Of course i would like to have tanning overhauled as you suggested to make it more realistic. But i think perhaps(?) this time i speak on behalf of sami when i say that this can wait... Sure i can understand its more of an important thing for you if you do things like that IRL.
I'm glad you like them! Let me explain myself a bit, so you hopefully like them even more
Speaking of overhaul, they are mostly aimed to make the game more playable, instead of realistic. I've made two suggestion threads on the subject: on terminology and curing. The terminology thread starter is long, but the suggestions in it are technically very spesific and relatively quickly doable, I believe. (Smoking might need some work, though.)
The curing thread indeed suggests a tanning overhaul for realism, but doesn't require it to reach its main aims:
So, getting finally to my suggestion:
1) accept cured hides for kota covers and "sleeping in furs"
2) shorten curing times to max overnight or allow picking up of skins with curing still continuing
The 'overhaul' was this:
3) complicate tanning to make it more realistic and to encourage curing to be used more
4) make cured skins available in villages and for trade - preferably much more commonly than tanned hides. I understand this would affect game balance significantly and prices would need to be adjusted accordingly, with tanning lifting the cost especially of big hides - not so much of the valuable small furs.
You see, I put a great deal of thought in writing suggestions, to make them easily readable and doable from coder's perspective. Numbers are also usually orders of priority in my lists, where applicable. But they are only suggestions, not requests. Something put freely on the table to gather refining feedback and possible support from fellow Unrealists. It's totally up to Sami to decide what to do with it and what are the priorities.
I actually don't even expect it (3+4), but if Sami really is up to actual tanning overhaul, I'm at his service if the time comes.
EDIT: There's actually some ideas in the terminology discussion later on. I had forgotten.
But from a technical gameplay perspective i think it works fine, but should at least get the right description while tanning. that is my point.Curing immediately after skinning would be big gameplay change and smaller change in code, imho. But we all have our priorities
Same with farming. Balance-wise i find it working good, perhaps must be nerfed, but thats not my concern. Mine is just a suggestion to get rid of the most hand-aching keyjockeyings. especially if you sit on a punt, you gotta press shift + g all the time... then chose amount and confirm.
i mean, honestly: i clear a little field of reeds, like 20 patches or so, and my hand hurts. and sometimes after a while i confuse and mix up the keys, because i jockey so fast. and i am not an extreme farmer-player...
Harvesting from a punt? Clever. So I see you need not just auto-pickup where you stand but harvesting too. Like automatically harvesting/picking up instead of moving on a harvestable/pickupable plant/item-mode. Would that work?
i mean, in the end, everything you do in URW is much easier than it would be in real life. when i think about it; in a strange way, physical pain is some real-realistic consequence of living a farming lifestyle. hunters and nomads dont have knee problems... unless it's a bear ripping your leg off
Yes I agree. Real life = pain.
138
General Discussion / Re: Icebox
« on: December 01, 2020, 10:19:43 PM »...What are your thoughts on this? It's a cold temperature or gutting and draining the blood more important to keeping a carcass from rotting in real lifr.
Gutting and draining, regardless of outside temperature.
Do you think it's worthy of a suggestion since Sami has been working on more realistic temperatures
I do think carcassess (and skins too) rot unrealistically quickly in Urw. The spoiling process should be slower since field dressing is not (yet?) featured. If it will be, then one should slower spoilage after field dressing.
I have suggested curing to be possible right after skinning, without the cleaning (fleshing) of the skin. I'm hopeful it will be so. Then your scenario would not have been a problem. Also your own fine idea of quartering would make possible to speed up initial butchering and cut the quarters into small bits later. https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5251.msg16284#msg16284
Submerging meat has been an ancient way of preserving it. The Sámi practised it by wrapping the meat in something (skins/bark? can't remember the source) and sinking it.
This I found online:
https://www.ur.umich.edu/9495/May08_95/storage.htm
139
Suggestions / Re: Field dress/quarter big game
« on: December 01, 2020, 07:20:26 PM »
Necromancy! I'm so waiting for this.
Field dressing, Most interested in getting:
- that 30% weight reduction (elk bowels weigh a shit-ton, quite literally)
- blood to container (4-8 litres from a reindeer)
- intestine
- technically: new, optional(?) procedure before skinning (I mean one could also just start skinning, get the field dressing done automatically and not take blood or intestine)
Possible additions (one hundredth the importance of above):
- heart (maybe bigger than usual sacrifice "value"?)
- liver
Quartering big game: BIGGIE. Love that.
After some English googling, butchers' vocabulary can be overwhelming. I suggest simply dividing current meat yield into 5 equal parts:
- 4 quarters (4 parts)
- extra cuts of meat (1 part)
- backstrap sinew/tendon (removed after skinning with help of knife and pulling with rope; before cutting the backstrap and ruining it too short)
- this would solve unobvious problems discussed here: https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5694.0
- technically: 'b'utcher 5 times: each time u get a quarter, last time the rest
Other possibilities (one hundredth the importance of above):
- 2 forequarters (2 parts)
- 2 hindquarters (2 parts)
- head
- back
- flank (or rib slab)
- neck
Each of these could then be cut into the familiar cuts of meat. Each quarter would yield 1 bone after cutting, and ofc the head, a skull. Great immersion value here.
Imagine watching your dog gnawing the frozen elk quarter for days.
Quartering and Packing Game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HOzXjeyrVg
Field dressing, Most interested in getting:
- that 30% weight reduction (elk bowels weigh a shit-ton, quite literally)
- blood to container (4-8 litres from a reindeer)
- intestine
- technically: new, optional(?) procedure before skinning (I mean one could also just start skinning, get the field dressing done automatically and not take blood or intestine)
Possible additions (one hundredth the importance of above):
- heart (maybe bigger than usual sacrifice "value"?)
- liver
Quartering big game: BIGGIE. Love that.
After some English googling, butchers' vocabulary can be overwhelming. I suggest simply dividing current meat yield into 5 equal parts:
- 4 quarters (4 parts)
- extra cuts of meat (1 part)
- backstrap sinew/tendon (removed after skinning with help of knife and pulling with rope; before cutting the backstrap and ruining it too short)
- this would solve unobvious problems discussed here: https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5694.0
- technically: 'b'utcher 5 times: each time u get a quarter, last time the rest
Other possibilities (one hundredth the importance of above):
- 2 forequarters (2 parts)
- 2 hindquarters (2 parts)
- head
- back
- flank (or rib slab)
- neck
Each of these could then be cut into the familiar cuts of meat. Each quarter would yield 1 bone after cutting, and ofc the head, a skull. Great immersion value here.
Imagine watching your dog gnawing the frozen elk quarter for days.
Quartering and Packing Game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HOzXjeyrVg
140
Suggestions / Re: A few things i am afraid that they could be overlooked in all the euphoria...
« on: December 01, 2020, 07:51:24 AM »
Good suggestions overall. I have to comment, on behalf of and before Sami has the chance to, that he'd probably like to have these suggestions on separate threads in the future. That way its easier for all of us to keep the discussion focused and have topics that describe the content.
The leather part leads me to think you may have missed this discussion: https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5835.0. There was also another I started, about curing...
Very warmly support animals eating. I was going to suggest this too at some point.
On agriculture is nice too, though I rarely farm that much. But auto-pickup all mode would be useful. Also agriculture - it seems to me - to be too secure a living. No extreme weather / disease / pests spoiling crops and causing famine... Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't really tried to live on it.
The leather part leads me to think you may have missed this discussion: https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5835.0. There was also another I started, about curing...
Very warmly support animals eating. I was going to suggest this too at some point.
On agriculture is nice too, though I rarely farm that much. But auto-pickup all mode would be useful. Also agriculture - it seems to me - to be too secure a living. No extreme weather / disease / pests spoiling crops and causing famine... Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't really tried to live on it.
141
Suggestions / Re: Directions from the women
« on: November 29, 2020, 09:40:17 AM »
Are those directions accurate at all anyway? In terms of distance. I always thought they are wildly inaccurate.
One other note:
One wilderness tile is 100 supposedly meters, funnily zoomed in walk-count tells actually 64 tiles = 128 meters (which I like, an old coder loves 16-divisible numbers).
Correct 100 meters below to actually display 128 meters?
Such irony in the region name I got
One other note:
One wilderness tile is 100 supposedly meters, funnily zoomed in walk-count tells actually 64 tiles = 128 meters (which I like, an old coder loves 16-divisible numbers).
Correct 100 meters below to actually display 128 meters?
Such irony in the region name I got
142
Mod Releases / Re: Buoidda's Fletching 2.0
« on: November 29, 2020, 08:13:08 AM »
Thank you! I've noticed. I'm happy they live on
My current interest in Urw is in things I can't mod, as you see in my suggestion spree.
My current interest in Urw is in things I can't mod, as you see in my suggestion spree.
143
Bug reports / Re: [3.63] EXPLOIT: anything inside birch-bark containers can be used in tanning
« on: November 29, 2020, 07:01:19 AM »
I've been pondering on how to gracefully solve this problem (?), considering that the game uses string analyzing for item recognition.
Birch-bark strips could be added 'outer', but that would still leave containers and in those 'outer' wouldn't be nice at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanbark
After reading above, I came to following conclusion:
Leave the birch-bark things as they are (modders rejoice!) and edit sheets of alder bark to **alder tanbark etc.
Hey, one could also obtain birch tanbark once the outer bark has been stripped!
Edit tanning to accept only *fat, *tanbark, (***flour, ****lard, ****tallow [for modders, why not?])
**(I lost sheets in the process, because it isn't necessary (or even good) to have them in one piece for tanning. And considering (future?) willows, rowans or any small trees from which the tanbark comes usually in small strips and pieces. Also please consider allowing scraping tanbark all year, albeit more slowly (but definitely not birch outer bark).
*** flour would really need to be made into sour mixture first, possibly with (sour) milk. But so should tanbark be boiled to extract tanning agents.
****https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_(animal_products)
Birch-bark strips could be added 'outer', but that would still leave containers and in those 'outer' wouldn't be nice at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanbark
After reading above, I came to following conclusion:
Leave the birch-bark things as they are (modders rejoice!) and edit sheets of alder bark to **alder tanbark etc.
Hey, one could also obtain birch tanbark once the outer bark has been stripped!
Edit tanning to accept only *fat, *tanbark, (***
**(I lost sheets in the process, because it isn't necessary (or even good) to have them in one piece for tanning. And considering (future?) willows, rowans or any small trees from which the tanbark comes usually in small strips and pieces. Also please consider allowing scraping tanbark all year, albeit more slowly (but definitely not birch outer bark).
*** flour would really need to be made into sour mixture first, possibly with (sour) milk. But so should tanbark be boiled to extract tanning agents.
****https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rendering_(animal_products)
144
Suggestions / Re: More usefulness for curing
« on: November 28, 2020, 08:20:19 PM »I agree, yet again
....rucksack/inventory...curing timer...
What if the durability timer was used to visualize the would-be inventory curing (or JP's salting) process? And torches' burn-out timer!
145
Suggestions / HITCHCOCK BIRDS aka allow automatically ignoring birds during tasks
« on: November 28, 2020, 08:03:55 PM »
We all know that feeling when eager to get something done and... you see a bird.
And another...
And yet another...
On fourth bird you remember a certain cult classic horror movie...
Settings in the urw_ini.txt allow to automatically ignore animals/humans.
Please add a separate row for only birds, as automatically ignoring all animals isn't very useful.
And another...
And yet another...
On fourth bird you remember a certain cult classic horror movie...
Settings in the urw_ini.txt allow to automatically ignore animals/humans.
Please add a separate row for only birds, as automatically ignoring all animals isn't very useful.
Spoiler: from urw_ini.txt • show
146
Bug reports / Re: [3.63] EXPLOIT: birch-bark containers can be used in tanning
« on: November 26, 2020, 09:39:58 PM »
Now complete with an educative picture for your viewing enjoyment. That Elfshot blog behind the picture link might be worth investigating. Primitive tech stuff.
147
Bug reports / [3.63] EXPLOIT: anything inside birch-bark containers can be used in tanning
« on: November 26, 2020, 04:14:50 PM »
I was about to tan a soaked elk skin with newly obtained bark. But I mistakenly chose birch-bark box of 'coarse grains' instead and, to my surprise, worked as tanning material. I had to fill the now-empty box and try it again to make sure. By not starting tanning but pressing escape during the pause when all conditions are met. Consequently, the birch-bark box, which was emptied when selected for tanning, did not refill when canceling. I repeat: I did not start the process.
Rye flour (made into sour mixture) can be used for tanning IRL, so initially I thought there was some purpose to all this.
But then, another thing was that I had a bag full of these same grains. That bag of coarse grains could not be selected for tanning.
So now I suspect it was the "birch-bark box of ..." that allowed the grains to be chosen in the first place. I have to test this with putting, say, dried meat inside a birch-bark container and try tanning with that.
I shouldn't even be reporting this, because now I want to use rye flour in this fashion in the future...
EDIT: Confirmed. I just tanned a bear skin with 2.1 lbs of awful dried elk cut from a birch-bark basket. Pretty sour stuff
EDIT: And I see birch-bark strip works too, even though the proper (reddish brown, used in tanning) bark was left on the birch... The white papery stuff shouldn't tan anything. This is a language problem, actually. Since in Finnish (for example) the outer bark (white stuff) is called tuohi and the inner bark (brown stuff) is called parkki.
Rye flour (made into sour mixture) can be used for tanning IRL, so initially I thought there was some purpose to all this.
But then, another thing was that I had a bag full of these same grains. That bag of coarse grains could not be selected for tanning.
So now I suspect it was the "birch-bark box of ..." that allowed the grains to be chosen in the first place. I have to test this with putting, say, dried meat inside a birch-bark container and try tanning with that.
I shouldn't even be reporting this, because now I want to use rye flour in this fashion in the future...
EDIT: Confirmed. I just tanned a bear skin with 2.1 lbs of awful dried elk cut from a birch-bark basket. Pretty sour stuff
EDIT: And I see birch-bark strip works too, even though the proper (reddish brown, used in tanning) bark was left on the birch... The white papery stuff shouldn't tan anything. This is a language problem, actually. Since in Finnish (for example) the outer bark (white stuff) is called tuohi and the inner bark (brown stuff) is called parkki.
148
Suggestions / Re: Buff up the elks, add swimming and jumping over fences
« on: November 26, 2020, 12:20:03 PM »
Idk how many readers are familiar with struggling in deep snow, but here's one more example of the power of the elk (they call it moose, same thing).
The display of power starts about 1:30 into the video. Enjoy.
https://cottagelife.com/outdoors/watch-a-moose-gallop-through-waist-deep-snow-like-its-thin-air
The display of power starts about 1:30 into the video. Enjoy.
https://cottagelife.com/outdoors/watch-a-moose-gallop-through-waist-deep-snow-like-its-thin-air
149
Suggestions / Re-triggering command for loop snares and paw-boards too
« on: November 22, 2020, 04:26:23 PM »
Please
Obviously they don't have to be previously triggered, only requirement being exactly one trap item lying on nearby tile.
Obviously they don't have to be previously triggered, only requirement being exactly one trap item lying on nearby tile.
150
Suggestions / Re: Live fish sometimes visible in nearby water
« on: November 19, 2020, 05:44:26 AM »...but if you start in autumn or winter things get trickier).
I see this as a good thing. But I see your point. I edited the starter. Note there's a lot of conditional statements (could/possibly). Club fishing could also exist as it is now, with my suggestion being complementary.
About angling... From splashing fish [(big) fish do that, I think they are telling they are annoyed or smth]; we know there is fish. And irl sometimes the fish just will not bite. Maybe a time to try something else.