Discontinued

[Jugger69]

Here are my personal 2 cents. I find it sad that the BAC mod is not updated right after a new game update release. I know that the mod's author can do as he pleases but I rather like the ideas behind BAC and would have liked to use it further in my actual game while at the same time using newer URW versions.

Its understandable that the mods author does not care to update a mod for a game he is not playing. On the other hand: its meant to be a "community" mod - so it should not depend on a single persons whim when and if to receive a timely update or not. As it stands its not usable - all the work for nothing and my save-game in jeopardy.

As it stands I think I will try to "downgrade" to vanilla and leave the beloved BAC mod - I hope my save-game will not be broken too much.

As a side note: I don't intend to anger anyone or to demand anything - if it sounds to harsh in your mind .. its not intended to (imagine a nice smile on my face while I am typing this). Gaming (and modding) should be fun without any pressure.

[Brygun]

Its understandable that the mods author does not care to update a mod for a game he is not playing. On the other hand: its meant to be a "community" mod - so it should not depend on a single person

It doesn't.

BAC agreement includes others can take it over. One offer made was turned down. They don't have to do it either. Someone else CAN take over updating the mod.

When asking for a stable place for a large mods was treated rudely with terms like "battle" and "little" I've not much interest in chasing the dev's BAD attitude to his customers. That's right... modders are customers too! Even more so they gave more content for other players which had been for years a benefit to the dev. Breaking the greater gameplay from the large mod for a few duplicated items.

There are other things like the magic snow ninja's the Nerjpez have become entirely immune to snow affects. Used to be learning the Finnish tradition of skiing gave you an advantage over the foreigners which did teach you the culture. Now its more like a DM who got pissy people where beating his villians so let the villians cheat.

The so called "smithing" update was hoped to actually be smithing but was "shopping". The mod community for years, before BAC, let you BE a smith. So it was a pretty pointless direction to have done the shopping.

Across those the BAC had been updated.

Frankly, if I do play Unreal World I'n not likely to bother with the game updates and stick to the version that the BAC works with.

You see similiar approaches to communities in games like Fallout 4 etc where people turn off updates to play the game >they the customer< wants to play.

[JP_Finn]

That’s funny Brygun. It almost reads like you do not want the game to be developed any further, just so the mod compilation stays functional.
If I understood your response correctly, that’s a peculiar approach to receiving updates to a longest in active development game in history of computer gaming. Maybe I truly misunderstood your response.

[Brygun]

If I understood your response correctly, that’s a peculiar approach to receiving updates to a longest in active development game in history of computer gaming. Maybe I truly misunderstood your response.

You definitely misunderstood and badly so. Its funny that someone who has been around the community mod so much would think that way.

The suggestion was to have a separate key for a make menu that would be a place modders would use. Then any ongoing development wouldn't disrupt the large mods. Since I had talked about a place where BOTH could happen that is on you not understanding. Trying to turn it in not developing the game is one of the gaslighting things people.

I personally can just play, should I play, on the existing versions of the game. The whole point of offering the suggestion was for the benefit of others.

A customer coming into a store having a staff tell them its a "battle" and how "little" the customer means the staff is an asshole.

By all means JP if you're up for it you can take over the community work. Content goes back to Rain's ironworking were we could already make axes and axe handles. Along the way dehafting was added for when you got a bad result mounting a handle. The use of new make menu letters has happened a few times and each time has meant a lot of work was needed to keep Rain and mine and everyone else's stuff going. By all means step up and: GO AHEAD.

[Brygun]

Go check out other large mod games like Fallout 4 and KSP 1.

Its a thing that people shut off game updates to run their game without updates that do more harm than good. That's a "solution" too. The suggestion was to allow both the large mod and further updates to coexist so its pretty "funny" for someone to tell a lie that it was about stopping development.

[Brygun]

From the first post in the thread for those who have missed the ongoing problems the game updates create:

Each game update may cause "collision" by taking up base menu numbers or changing some mechanic.

[Erkka]

A customer coming into a store having a staff tell them its a "battle" and how "little" the customer means the staff is an asshole.

I 100% agree with that. But I must admit that I haven't seen that happen in the context of this discussion about "please add a new hotkey for modded crafting recipes". I have seen Brygun making that interpretation, and then sticking with that feeling. Okay, I think that is natural for humans, so not going to continue more on that theme.

So, the way I understand it, this is what we have at the moment:

1. The discussion and considerations about adding a new key for modded crafting recipes is still open, a final decision has not been announced. I haven't seen Sami saying that the suggestion is already rejected, I have seen him saying that before making the decision it is good to think about it from many different perspectives to make a balanced and well-grounded decision.

2. Currently there is no-one actively maintaining the BAC mod. And if anyone / some people want to continue maintaining it, they are free to do so.
(And, both there in the forums and in the community Discord I have seen players mentioning that they'd like to have an updated version of BAC compatible with the latest version of UrW, but maybe those players don't have the modding skills themselves, or then they somehow perceive it as "a ready-made project handed down for us", or, somehow perceiving some distance between them as players and mod creators, while the fact seems to be that mod creators are players, and players can be mod creators, and that the magical "someone" does not exist, but it is always this or that person, you, me, them, everybody.)

[Privateer]

 UW mod making used to be about adding a thing or two that I felt were needed IMO in a version, or in my specific game play.
I've not played the last couple versions so I am uninformed as to what has been added.

 Even though I put out the menu mod, I've never been of the mind that consuming every slot was a valid mod method outside of a specific version. We are only boroughing the keys that aren't used.

[smccamish]

If I understood your response correctly, that’s a peculiar approach to receiving updates to a longest in active development game in history of computer gaming. Maybe I truly misunderstood your response.

You definitely misunderstood and badly so. Its funny that someone who has been around the community mod so much would think that way.

The suggestion was to have a separate key for a make menu that would be a place modders would use. Then any ongoing development wouldn't disrupt the large mods. Since I had talked about a place where BOTH could happen that is on you not understanding. Trying to turn it in not developing the game is one of the gaslighting things people.

I personally can just play, should I play, on the existing versions of the game. The whole point of offering the suggestion was for the benefit of others.

A customer coming into a store having a staff tell them its a "battle" and how "little" the customer means the staff is an asshole.

By all means JP if you're up for it you can take over the community work. Content goes back to Rain's ironworking were we could already make axes and axe handles. Along the way dehafting was added for when you got a bad result mounting a handle. The use of new make menu letters has happened a few times and each time has meant a lot of work was needed to keep Rain and mine and everyone else's stuff going. By all means step up and: GO AHEAD.

Doesn't steam have a beta option build in for game designers to use already, I'm sure i've used it for other games.

So wouldn't the solution be to have it by default run the Designers live version but leave that window open so that there is say a stable build (or last few key builds) you can re-gress to.

That way people dont need to mess about downloading essentially pirateable old game files and additionally the Modders and Designers can sync up, modders can then choose to bring themselves in line with the Devs as the main game hits more major and interesting content updates.

Say every 0.25 (not an exact figure i think 3.80 and 3.72 were the last 2 bigger milestones) build versions a solid state (Stable) version is optional in steam. Wouldn't this please everyone?

As an extra advantage the designers could also make it possible to Opt in to a newer (experimental Branch) for those that want to offer them support and assist with developement of the main path.

I know you can't always please everybody but wouldn't this essentially put it in the players hands to please themselves pun Intended. Whilst at the same time after intial setup be less work to designers? With the more die hard fans able to support them with feedback where it counts.

May have typed and essay sorry if what I'm saying doesn't sound viable not a coder just and ideas guy.

[JP_Finn]

Beta in this case would work almost backwards? Unless you are thinking that Sami should set an arbitrary version as beta, folks mod to that version, and then non-modder people would be stuck on that with their mods?

Seems like additional work on juggling what version would be locked in beta(“mod safe”) version. And that would only be Steam specific, Lifetimers, Twitch* etc still would need to fine tune their version.

When pretty much any development branches; it’ll almost certainly increase workload, leaving less actual developer time for features, bugs, or community involvement.

* I have exactly zero(0) knowledge how Twitch works or doesn’t work.

[smccamish]

Beta in this case would work almost backwards? Unless you are thinking that Sami should set an arbitrary version as beta, folks mod to that version, and then non-modder people would be stuck on that with their mods?

Seems like additional work on juggling what version would be locked in beta(“mod safe”) version. And that would only be Steam specific, Lifetimers, Twitch* etc still would need to fine tune their version.

When pretty much any development branches; it’ll almost certainly increase workload, leaving less actual developer time for features, bugs, or community involvement.

* I have exactly zero(0) knowledge how Twitch works or doesn’t work.

So minimal extra work for the Devs (Sami) initially except cacheing versions of the game on steam, so that people can choose to revert to builds without downloading from 3rd party sites. This gives freedom to the Modders to play catch up with the patches wtih Sami at thier own pace. Less a beta and more just a repository of game build versions on steam. that would be step one.

Puts it on the modders to be able to do their own thing at their own pace.

I'm not silly enough to think this can be sorted entirely in one pass but this would take advantage of an existing steam feature to just give freedom to the Modders, would also potentially mean Sami could draw a line and say Old versions are there for players and Modders, however no bug support if your not on the main branch.

Seems a fair compromise that may remove the need for some of the kinda hostile arguments that seem to have been occuring between long time community members on here.

Apreciate i haven't posted much, but have been playing for years, and for a small tight community to be having as much grumbling as this just seems a real shame, trying to find a reasonable compromise isn't easy but there should be a way.

[Brygun]

A customer coming into a store having a staff tell them its a "battle" and how "little" the customer means the staff is an asshole.

I 100% agree with that. But I must admit that I haven't seen that happen in the context of this discussion about "please add a new hotkey for modded crafting recipes". I have seen Brygun making that interpretation

Those are quotes from Saami's words not an "interpretation". Not facing the issues only made you look worse.

"a battle you can't win" was in Saami's original responses.

Not an interpretation. A quote.

[Sami]

A customer coming into a store having a staff tell them its a "battle" and how "little" the customer means the staff is an asshole.

I 100% agree with that. But I must admit that I haven't seen that happen in the context of this discussion about "please add a new hotkey for modded crafting recipes". I have seen Brygun making that interpretation

Those are quotes from Saami's words not an "interpretation". Not facing the issues only made you look worse.

"a battle you can't win" was in Saami's original responses.

Not an interpretation. A quote.

So here's the thread so everybody can read it and make up their mind:
http://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=7264.0

If somebody is till puzzled about what I mean with a certain phrases it's best to ask me directly for a first hand opinion.

[Plotinus]

A customer coming into a store having a staff tell them its a "battle" and how "little" the customer means the staff is an asshole.

I 100% agree with that. But I must admit that I haven't seen that happen in the context of this discussion about "please add a new hotkey for modded crafting recipes". I have seen Brygun making that interpretation

Those are quotes from Saami's words not an "interpretation". Not facing the issues only made you look worse.

"a battle you can't win" was in Saami's original responses.

Not an interpretation. A quote.

Brygun, it sounds like you had a really strong reaction to Sami's post in that thread, but did you see in another thread where he said he's making some preliminary progress towards implementing your suggestion? I think actions speak louder than words here.  https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=7309.0

[chad]

You say you want someone to continue your work and carry on updating the mod. I agree that this would be good.
However it seems all of the most recent updates have been removed from the forum- so a) the mod is far less available to the community, and b) anyone wishing to update the mod will have 2 extra years of changes to work through.

I can say from experience that finns are very direct and straightforward, and this can sometimes catch people (from different cultures) off-guard and lead to misunderstandings. I don't think the devs had any bad intentions and if you look at the latest devnotes it seems they're implementing the features suggested.

Overall I'd wish that you don't bite your nose off to spite your face. Long hours of hard work have clearly been put into this and I think many people are grateful for that, so it's a shame for it to just vanish. Even if you understandably don't want to keep updating, surely it would be better to leave a legacy than a void, especially considering the "community" aspect.