Winter Fur

[cookie]

This is a really weird and kind of complicated subject. Wish it were a little clearer.

From what I can tell as well, there appears to be no difference in warmth with winter fur - only market value. Since it's not mentioned in the changelog, I'm guessing that hasn't been implemented.

So just checking: even with Fine small knife, Fine fur and Fine cordage... it is impossible to craft Fine fur clothing, right? Because, looking at diy_glossary, all clothing creation uses the common skill and none of the fur clothing recipes come with a built-in bonus but fur cap - which has 15%. And you need a 20% bonus? I just tried about a dozen times with a fine small knife + fine bear fur and only got decent fur caps.

I read in the wiki that Common skill is always base 60. But I read in many places on the forum - here included - it is said that you need base 40 to make fine items. Sooo... what's going on?

Also - and this is the first time this happened to me - I recently made a Fine Raft with a masterwork handaxe and fine spruce wythes. How is that possible?

IS it possible to make fine bear fur clothing with a masterwork knife? If so, then I've really got to find a masterworking smith.

[Matti-patti]

IS it possible to make fine bear fur clothing with a masterwork knife? If so, then I've really got to find a masterworking smith.

Player made clothes are capped at decent (at last without mods). Also note that quality only boosts (IIRC) warmth and blunt resistance of fur clothing (which are already weaker on bear fur than generic fur). It doesn't boost point or edge resistance, unlike leather and the metals.

[cookie]

Is it? The wiki says generic fur and bear fur are the same except bear fur is better vs Tear. Is there a game file I can check or are people just comparing manually with layers in-game?

This all seems needlessly opaque in addition to needlessly complicated. I understand warmth... but why blunt? Why not anything else?

I understand that hideworking isn't tailoring, but I fail to see how a grandmaster hideworker could fail to produce a superior cloak out of bear fur than "generic fur" he scavenged off a dead bandit.

My mind is open, but there really needs to be a better explanation of this. What kind of fur is "generic fur" such that it's apparently superior to anything else we can see in-game?

[Matti-patti]

Is it? The wiki says generic fur and bear fur are the same except bear fur is better vs Tear. Is there a game file I can check or are people just comparing manually with layers in-game?

Some people have probably snooped the game code at various time but I don't know how to do so. You can see armour values in-game either on the armour coverage screen or by individually examining pieces of clothing in your inventory.

Those colour coded pictures at the start of http://unrealworld.fi/wiki/index.php?title=Clothing are extremely old. They were wrong a decade ago when they were on the old Wiki, if someone has Wiki account would be good idea to move them to the bottom of the article (which has similarly ancient stuff) or just remove them. The correct armour values are given in a text based table bit further down the article, and there is also legend for the colour codes used on the armour coverage screen above that. Only aspect missing from the Wiki are the bonuses clothing/armour get from quality. E.g. rough clothing (fur/cloth/wool) has -1 warmth, fine cloth clothing and leather get no boost, but there is a boost at masterwork, furs and wool get their bonus at fine already (easily missed on wool since it goes from 4 to 5 warmth, which are both colour coded yellow) and IIRC are no further buffed by masterwork. IIRC, mail is only buffed at masterwork, not sure about iron (helm, coudes) since it's pierce/edge resistance is out of scale.

[cookie]

Is it? The wiki says generic fur and bear fur are the same except bear fur is better vs Tear. Is there a game file I can check or are people just comparing manually with layers in-game?

Some people have probably snooped the game code at various time but I don't know how to do so. You can see armour values in-game either on the armour coverage screen or by individually examining pieces of clothing in your inventory.

Those colour coded pictures at the start of http://unrealworld.fi/wiki/index.php?title=Clothing are extremely old. They were wrong a decade ago when they were on the old Wiki, if someone has Wiki account would be good idea to move them to the bottom of the article (which has similarly ancient stuff) or just remove them. The correct armour values are given in a text based table bit further down the article, and there is also legend for the colour codes used on the armour coverage screen above that. Only aspect missing from the Wiki are the bonuses clothing/armour get from quality. E.g. rough clothing (fur/cloth/wool) has -1 warmth, fine cloth clothing and leather get no boost, but there is a boost at masterwork, furs and wool get their bonus at fine already (easily missed on wool since it goes from 4 to 5 warmth, which are both colour coded yellow) and IIRC are no further buffed by masterwork. IIRC, mail is only buffed at masterwork, not sure about iron (helm, coudes) since it's pierce/edge resistance is out of scale.

Wow. Yes. Like i said, needlessly opaque and complicated.

Thank you for the heads up, though.

It looks like bear fur is still better on point and tear in any event, then... which means I don't anticipate swapping it out. I keep reading people on this forum saying that fur armor doesn't make sense in the long run, but I haven't been able to find any combination of armors that provides better all-around protection than a combo of bear fur and generic leather plus iron. Yeah it weighs a lot but it's better than an arrow to the gut.

[Matti-patti]

Fur armour makes sense, and yes especially bear fur with it's point resistance which can be otherwise hard to stack. But I don't really armour up for my everyday tasks anymore, except for the neck where mail cowl + fur hood is nice guarantee in case a wolf tries to stealth nibble you from behind (they always attack neck), which can be an unexpected instant death otherwise. If you are going out with intent to fight or hunt dangerous critters, then it's different.

What furs don't make much sense is warmth for winter wear, which is opposite of what one might expect.

[cookie]

Fur armour makes sense, and yes especially bear fur with it's point resistance which can be otherwise hard to stack. But I don't really armour up for my everyday tasks anymore, except for the neck where mail cowl + fur hood is nice guarantee in case a wolf tries to stealth nibble you from behind (they always attack neck), which can be an unexpected instant death otherwise. If you are going out with intent to fight or hunt dangerous critters, then it's different.

What furs don't make much sense is warmth for winter wear, which is opposite of what one might expect.

My current setup is a 200lb guy who gets just barely under the 20lb limit with bear fur shirt, leggings, cowl, footwear and mittens plus woolen mittens and socks and leather belt... it does the job for everything but the absolute depth of winter.

Maybe if I was going for a hardcore winter outfit I'd layer wool on wool on linen or something? One of the things that's implied in the encyclopedia is that comfort affects the superstition state and linen helps with that. I wonder if there's any truth to that.