Crowdfunding : your thoughts?

[Dark Art]

Thanks for sharing this Erkka. Being able to face your inner demons is not easy. Its even harder to deal with them in any meaningful way. Oh and I never really understood people who claimed that dealing with mental issues is waste of time. Mind is just another organ. When your leg is badly damaged and you want it back to relatively normal condition - you go see the specialist. When you got head issues - you go see the specialist. If you want it back to relatively normal condition that it. It just makes sense. Without going much into the details, I can say that I somewhat know what you are talking about it. I didnt have to go to the doctors (or rather chose not to), but yeah... I know what you mean. Luckily for me, as a youth I was a very voracious reader devouring anything I could've gotten my little greedy hands on. I am very sure that some of the books I've read kept me sane and productive during my darker moments. Right now I live (or rather try to) by few very simple rules - I need to know how to wait, think and fast (abstain from overeating). My enemies (life challenges really, but in the original text these things were called "enemies") are fear, clarity, power and old age. My most trusted advisor is my own death (or rather inevitable mortality). And its always good to remember that hell is other people (no, its not related to misanthropy). I know its a strange bag of Hesse mixed Sartre and seasoned with Castaneda of all things, but hey, it works for me . If you'll have some free time and will want some food for thought - let me know, I'll give you some interesting and possibly useful titles.

[Dark Art]

Hey guys, looks like this rather important thread got flooded with interesting, but rather unrelated stuff. IMHO, it might be a good idea to separate the unrelated stuff from the main discussion and move it to "Off topic" section. Just a thought, its your call of course.

[Erkka]

Maybe. My own opinion has been to leave the thread as it is - anyway this was mostly about me asking for different opinions and feelings and thoughts about a possible Enormous Elk crowdfunding campaign. And I got feedback from different points of view, no problem with that. (Also, it was pretty much me myself, who decided to mention also my personal background like currently being low on money because of my other job opportunities being on decline, so if I get feedback also related to that, then it kind of a is partially because of my decision to have this broader perspective, instead of just talking strictly project stuff as project stuff.)

Also, we are anyway approaching the turn of the year, and I'm busy working with the project mentioned so that I'd have some more news in early January. Once we hit that, I'll start a new thread with new news. I mean, I anyway see this thread approaching the very end of its lifecycle, so I won't bother that much with splitting the topic.

(ps. Dark Art: thanks for your good comments. I didn't reply for I was immersed in coding. We can maybe continue our discussion in e-mail, I'd guess)

[Dark Art]

Oh please... There is really no need for any apologies. I just hope you making some headway with coding - I am really looking forward seeing what will you end up with eventually. With the way things are going, we'll need a good, fun diversion. At times like these I kinda wish my coding skills were greater than relatively simple SQL and good ol' bash scripts

Sure, we can do email.

[Owlant]

I am afraid I am late to the game but may I put my squirrel hide in?

I have supported URW for many years. I have purchase a lifetime membership way back on a dead username which I don't use as I like to think that person I was when I made it, is dead too.  I have donated money when I can to it, I have bought it on Steam. I tell my friends about it, I recommend it, I have bought extra copies and gift it to people.

This game has followed me from preteen to now, I am almost 30. I played this game for so long, it has been with me on bad days and good and I have Erkka and Sami to thank for years of support and escape.

If Erkka is asking the same of me, for support and escape, I will happily donate. Because he deserves my loyalty and support as one of the few game creators that constantly gives.

 

[Erkka]

Not late at all. Thank You for your comment!

Lately I've been immersed into the coding itself, postponing the funding-related decisions. I have a feeling that the most likely backers are a handful of long-term UrW followers, which sounds about right for me. So in my mind there are alternatives to a full-blown indiegogo campaign. Another way would be to host a small campaign on Enormous Elk webpages, offering the loyal fans an opportunity to back this project, and to get involved in the early development-phase communications and testing. Then, if needed, at later phase of the development we could try indiegogo campaign for a wider audience, if additional funding is needed. But these decisions depend on how my development goes this week and week 1 of the 2021. I'll make my decisions at the weekend 8. - 10. of January 2021.

And for those interested in a little more details, there is a fresh blog post.

[Owlant]

Erkka, regardless of your decision, may I please donate at least a cup of coffee your way anyways? I have read about your recent issues and in the spirit of the season, I wish to try to help a bit.

[Erkka]

How much is a cup of coffee at your hoods?

Maybe it wouldn't hurt to set up the simple basics during this week. Like, "donate X amount of moneys, and get an access to the project Discord server, where you can read the weekly project updates". This without any big indiegogo campaign, just a small campaign page for UrW players who wish to back our further adventures in Nordic indie game-making. And then more layers added later on, based on how the project goes. (Read: depending on how lucky I'm with my current starving artits techniques. Also, I'd love to have a little extra money to pay for a graphics designer. But that is probably a later stage, for first I need to make some other design decisions which I haven't settled yet.)

EDIT: Or, maybe we don't need to determine the exact value of that X. I'll take a look what we can do with PayPal, I'd guess it will allow some flexibility for people to donate based on their personal situation. In this first funding stage the sums wont' matter that much - it would be nice and inspiring just to gather a small bunch of early backers, who would be the first ones to get their hands of the development version, as soon as I have a minimum playable build to share.

[Owlant]

Whatever suits you best. I am very interested in the game concept. The struggle of action or inaction when lives depend on you is a brilliant concept.

Please let me know when it is set up.

[Dark Art]

Comes out from the shadow with face covered with  a bandana, spray-paints in large, fluorescent, bright red letters "PATREON, JUST DO IT ALREADY" and runs away

[Erkka]

Patreon sounds so very good and we'd like to do that when time is ripe.

But, the way I see it, Patreon is something long-running and stable. I feel that when launching Patreon one already needs to have a pretty solid idea what it is going to be, for years to come.

Patreon for Enormous Elk, to back anything Enormous Elk does? Or Patreon for Erkka Lehmus, to back what Erkka Lehmus does although most of that is related to Enormous Elk stuff? And / or a separate Patreon for Sami as a person? What kind of extra content for patrons? Who will provide that extra content and when and how? I must admit that after some serious thought work my own ideas aren't fully clear and settled when it comes to that kind of questions. There are many possibilities, with many pros and cons.

And that is why I feel that at the moment it suits us better to do a campaign. Something which has a clearly defined start and end, so that it is easier to make plans for that campaign period only. After that experience it will hopefully be easier to craft solid long-term plans for a Patreon profile.

[Dark Art]

Friend, you are overthinking it. There are plenty of Patreon accounts that are set up for just one project and even then, half the time the project is far from being either completed or even fully planned out. Moreover, there are creators that use it for direct support without actually having a defined product - bloggers, journalists, book writers etc. In my very humble opinion, you are more that ripe for it.

In terms of Sami vs Erkka vs Enormous Elk  - this is something you guys need to sit down and discuss. Personally, I'd make two accounts: one purely for URW and another one for Enormous Elk with honorary mention of its sister in each. Those who are interested in URW alone will be happy, any other project can fall under Enormous Elk. In terms of rewards - dont worry about it. Really. Most Patreon accounts are simple blogs with dev updates visible only to active contributors. Keep in mind that folks who are willing to support the creator long-term do it consciously and, more often than not, not looking for some kind of special reward. They support the creator because they want the end product and because they think its a right thing to do. So again, do not overthink it. I'd just start off simple, post weekly or bi-weekly updates on whats going on with devving and take things from there. Patrons will tell you if there will be a need for anything else (which I doubt).

P.S. Its your call of course, but I will not get off your back till you actually make it happen. Just so you know

[Alkio]

Friend, you are overthinking it. There are plenty of Patreon accounts that are set up for just one project and even then, half the time the project is far from being either completed or even fully planned out. Moreover, there are creators that use it for direct support without actually having a defined product - bloggers, journalists, book writers etc. In my very humble opinion, you are more that ripe for it.

In terms of Sami vs Erkka vs Enormous Elk  - this is something you guys need to sit down and discuss. Personally, I'd make two accounts: one purely for URW and another one for Enormous Elk with honorary mention of its sister in each. Those who are interested in URW alone will be happy, any other project can fall under Enormous Elk. In terms of rewards - dont worry about it. Really. Most Patreon accounts are simple blogs with dev updates visible only to active contributors. Keep in mind that folks who are willing to support the creator long-term do it consciously and, more often than not, not looking for some kind of special reward. They support the creator because they want the end product and because they think its a right thing to do. So again, do not overthink it. I'd just start off simple, post weekly or bi-weekly updates on whats going on with devving and take things from there. Patrons will tell you if there will be a need for anything else (which I doubt).

P.S. Its your call of course, but I will not get off your back till you actually make it happen. Just so you know

Agree'd. I wouldn't mind throwing some euros regularly for URW development via patreon. Didn't read through every post in the thread, but had the same idea that Patreon could definitely be worth a try. Can of course ditch it, if it doesn't work as intended? Probably less of a hassle than developing a whole new game.

[Erkka]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys !

I realize that I was too vague with my Patreon-related thoughts. So let me rephrase myself:

Yes, absolutely! Patreon for Enormous Elk is already planned, and will happen! The exact timing of launching the Patreon profile will depend on various stuff, which I won't go in detail now. But it is coming, as a way to support UnReal World development, and what ever other smaller stuff Enormous Elk does.

Friend, you are overthinking it.

Hey, thanks for the pieces of information you wrote in that post! This is something I tried to say in one of our earlier e-mails. That, since I personally don't have that much user experience with Patreon, it has been a bit hard for me to think about it. And therefore I've been reading their own official instructions and guides and recommendations, leading me to "overthink" it, having a feeling that a Patreon profile should be a shiny thing with a frequent stream of special bonus content to keep the audience engaged. But the way you describe it now sounds a lot more like something which would perfectly fit the way Enormous Elk works 

On top of that, I might still try a small simple separate campaign for the Ancient Savo project - mostly just to gather that small bunch of early test players to provide feedback during the development phase. I see that as a more focused need, choosing the tools according to that specific need.

  Didn't read through every post in the thread, but had the same idea that Patreon could definitely be worth a try. Can of course ditch it, if it doesn't work as intended? Probably less of a hassle than developing a whole new game.

Ah, absolutely no problem with not wading through the entire thread. It has been just different people expressing their different opinions, thoughts, assumptions, fears and also a lot of willingness to support - each according to their own personal point of view. But scattered here and there were few of my thoughts related to the idea of developing a whole new game. For I see it as a good way to boost UnReal World development in the long term, and to unleash some of my own creative potential which has been partially hibernating for too long, being burdened by the duties of my main work. So, the idea of making a side game next to the main title, that stems from the development chambers, so to say 

[JP_Finn]

So if the Hack n burn, family survival game is under way... are you including trade elements with settlements, villages?

I personally wouldn’t mind “URW-ish” take on sandbox. With Rimworld/Dwarf Fortress-esque features (without fighting?)
That’d be lot bigger than couple months of coding though, and not likely just a “side-project” scale.