Spirit relation re-balancing

[PALU]

The spirit and magic enhancements are good in general. However, there are a few things I think need re-balancing:

1. As far as I can tell, sacrifices now use a joint pool, as opposed to separate pools (and spells) for different targets earlier. I think they need to be split up again, so sacrifice of fish automatically goes towards satisfying the water spirits and meat to appease the forest ones, and these pools being independent, i.e. having made an offering to the spirits of the forest shouldn't block a sacrifice to the spirits of the water. Whether there should be a regional split up as well can be discussed, as I don't know if there are regional differences or not, but if there are, sacrifices to one region/realm spirit shouldn't affect sacrifices to another.
2. Spirit mood feedback should likewise be split up more. I keep getting messages of unity with the water even though my character haven't fished for half a year, and the sacrifices for almost as long have been of meat (I had some roaches that needed sacrificing).
3. The "cost" of kills should be re-balanced so it's possible to live off small game without being hated by the spirits of the forest. It should be contemplated whether the value (in some currency, e.g. amount/nutrients of meat and/or fur value) of a kill and sacrifice should affect the spirit relation adjustment. Currently it seems a sacrifice of a spoiled hazel grouse lump of fat has the same impact as a whole salmon or fresh bear cut.
4. "Special" sacrifices (of which I know a single one) should not be blocked by the standard ones, and given their cost, they ought to give a larger boost to the relation than the standard one.
5. Spirit moods ought to move towards neutral over time if nothing affects them, so a relation of unity should decay towards neutral if you neither sacrifice nor "harvest" from the spirit's domain, and the same should a furious relation.
However, some folklore seems to have rather petty supernatural actors with long memories, so it might not be wrong to let good relations decay a lot faster than bad ones are repaired.

[Dungeon Smash]

I definitely agree with #3.  Spirits seem equally angry with a starving trapper who kills a bird or two every day, as with a ruthless hunter who kills half a herd of reindeer and leaves them to rot when his cellar is already full.  just doesn't seem right

[Lin]

Yep, what PALU said. #3 especially. I had a winter start and it takes ALOT of berries and heather flowers to fill up, but I can still only sacrifice one berry or flower a day. It feels weird that the spirits are pissed at a starving char for not being able to sacrifice one out of the 3 roaches that are his only food in 2 days aside from flowers. In short, the spirits are being super weird and a bit mean.

In addition to these great suggestions, I'm gonna go ahead and suggest that our folks should probably have a basic grasp of what the spirits want from them most of the time, at least when performing common daily activities. They are natives to the land after all and grew up with this lore and these spirits.

To name an example, they should probably have a clue of whether the rod fishing ritual is a request for help, aka something that puts them in debt to the spirits, like in the old system, or good practice in accordance with custom, and thus pleasing to the spirits (which seems to be implied by the new descriptions - but doesn't seem to be the case? Maybe? Who knows). Though if it is a request for help, and requesting help makes you indebted to the spirits, who are already looking for any excuse to be angry, we would be using them a lot less and that would be a pity. Because I really really enjoy the way they enhance the game.

[Dungeon Smash]

Actually, I disagree slightly with Lin.  I'm not sure I want to know exactly where I stand with the spirits at all times.  I think maybe the fishing rod ritual both helps and hurts?  I always try to make sure to sacrifice a fish after using it.  I like the mystery of not knowing exactly how magic/spirits work.  Even after a character has accumulated all the furs and treasures of the world, the spirits are still a little mysterious.

[PALU]

I agree the spirits should be mysterious (and quite possibly fickle), but I believe the player should be told what the character knows, that is, how you're supposed to use the rituals according to the custom. That might not be the "optimal" way, but should be good enough. Rebellious/adventurous/curious characters/players may then try variations of the custom(s) [plural, as different cultures may have differences in their customs].

I can no longer sacrifice a fish after using the fishing rod ritual, as I sacrifice a piece of (spoiled) meat every morning, and "double" sacrifices result in a reaction of displeasure (which also happens when my character wakes up early, and so the invisible date line hasn't been crossed yet when the morning sacrifice is conducted).

[Lin]

Thank you Palu, that is exactly what I meant, you phrased it much better than I. The mystery and fickleness of the spirits is desirable and has always been a great asset of the game. Having more of a clue of how my own culture's customs are "supposed to" be affecting my relationship to the spiritworld would take very little out of the mystery. But it would allow a more immersive and less game-y experience,imo.

[aat]

+ 1 for this, especially regarding

3. The "cost" of kills should be re-balanced so it's possible to live off small game without being hated by the spirits of the forest. It should be contemplated whether the value (in some currency, e.g. amount/nutrients of meat and/or fur value) of a kill and sacrifice should affect the spirit relation adjustment. Currently it seems a sacrifice of a spoiled hazel grouse lump of fat has the same impact as a whole salmon or fresh bear cut.

sometimes I have 3-4 birds getting trapped one after another, and if I make a sacrifice to the spirit for the first one, I can't make anymore for the others, and in the end "the forest looks extremely hostile". even if I manage to make only one last "cumulative" sacrifice, the spirits are never happy.
never managed to "feel unity with the world" in this playthrough.