Possibility of Superior Furs

[Rukisama]

My character is currently at skill level 100 in Hideworking, yet I've never been able to make a superior fur. I can get a superior skin sometimes, and keep the quality through cleaning, but as soon as I get to the first "Tanning" step (applying the tanning material, i.e. the animal's fat) the quality inevitably degrades to Fine. I'm wondering if it's even possible for a character to create a superior fur or if I'm doomed to disappointment every time I try.

[Plotinus]

I don't remember if I've gotten a superior fur or not, but I'm pretty sure I've gotten a superior bird leather before. I'm not sure, though, and I've never had 100 hideworking. It could be a bug though if you're always getting a degrading.

Do you always drop all your things so you're unencumbered while doing tanning?

[JP_Finn]

You’ll need a Fine quality skinning/tanning knife: Broad, Hunting or Northern (not sure of any others), masterwork helps but isn’t mandatory.
You should start producing perfect furs at and above HIDEWORKING 80

[JP_Finn]

Plotinus,
I’m not 100%, but near certain that tanning doesn’t run encumbrance check. If you’re tanning elk, bear skin with a bag, birchbark basket or multiple bowl: game doesn’t prompt “with the load you’re carrying your task is more difficult “ paraphrased, I’m not  able to check the exact wording. Same as trapping. On the other hand timbercraft and fishing do prompt about the penalties, injuries, encumbrance, fatigue.

[Rukisama]

I haven't tried dropping everything yet, I'll try and give that a shot (though as JP_Finn points out it's unlikely the issue, but who knows). And I actually have a masterwork broad knife. I just can't seem to get through all the steps without quality degrading to "Fine." It also might be that I'll get one eventually, but I've made a LOT of furs (as the 100 skill level shows lol). It just seems strange to me.

I suppose I'll keep trying, thanks for your help!

[Matti-patti]

Plotinus,
I’m not 100%, but near certain that tanning doesn’t run encumbrance check. If you’re tanning elk, bear skin with a bag, birchbark basket or multiple bowl: game doesn’t prompt “with the load you’re carrying your task is more difficult “ paraphrased, I’m not  able to check the exact wording. Same as trapping. On the other hand timbercraft and fishing do prompt about the penalties, injuries, encumbrance, fatigue.

It does still affect the fatigue you get, so especially with larger furs it's still good idea to drop everything except the fur at least when finishing rinsed furs.

[MrMotorhead]

I have succeeded in getting a superior fur.  It's quite uncommon as you note, the quality usually degrades before the tanning process completes.  In general I try to reduce my character's penalty as much as possible before each step of the process.  This was taken back in September of 2020.  Hideworking skill is currently 88 and a fine broad knife is in his inventory.

https://imgur.com/a/SOwk8nF

[Rukisama]

I have succeeded in getting a superior fur.  It's quite uncommon as you note, the quality usually degrades before the tanning process completes.  In general I try to reduce my character's penalty as much as possible before each step of the process.  This was taken back in September of 2020.  Hideworking skill is currently 88 and a fine broad knife is in his inventory.

https://imgur.com/a/SOwk8nF

Good to know it's not just a pipe dream! I'll keep trying, it's bound to happen sooner or later.

[Bert Preast]

Plotinus,
I’m not 100%, but near certain that tanning doesn’t run encumbrance check. If you’re tanning elk, bear skin with a bag, birchbark basket or multiple bowl: game doesn’t prompt “with the load you’re carrying your task is more difficult “ paraphrased, I’m not  able to check the exact wording. Same as trapping. On the other hand timbercraft and fishing do prompt about the penalties, injuries, encumbrance, fatigue.

I don't think even the weight of the hide counts.  If you look at the weight you are carrying, the weight of the hide is immediately subtracted as soon as you begin a tanning process.

[Rukisama]

Just a follow up, having tried to tan (I'd guess) about 2 dozen skins that started as "superior" but still inevitably degrade to "fine" in the second step of tanning. I almost wonder if it's related to the fact that the fat I'm using is only ever of default "decent" quality? As far as I know there's no tanning material that can have higher quality than that, and it's hard to imagine that it *should* matter, but I can't think of anything else that would cause it, except maybe superior furs being much more rare than I thought.

[Plotinus]

with other crafts it often tells you why: that's the best you could do given the tools and the materials, or it was your tools not your skills, or you can't make good from bad.

But I looked back through my living characters (all of whom have been alive for many versions) and all it says is

You fail to maintain the quality of the superior clean elk-skin during this step.
You fail to maintain the quality of the superior clean black grouse-skin during this step.

But among my dead characters, several of them go to the superior rinsed skin step, and only one of them fails to maintain the quality of the rinsed skin, so I'm guessing (but don't want to carefully read through these old files) the others got superior furs:

Code: [Select]

grep -aE "superior.*rinsed" */msglog.txt
0/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):hchi:[:]{02610659}      | You pick up the superior winter rinsed arctic fox-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):88hj:[:]{03C40682}      | You pick up the superior rinsed elk-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(A80000):98h3:[!]{03C40682}      | You fail to maintain the quality of the superior rinsed elk-skin during this step.
5/msglog.txt:(143270):4ahj:[#]{03C30683}      | You see a superior rinsed capercaillie-skin (being prepared) here.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):4ahk:[:]{03C30683}      | You pick up the superior rinsed capercaillie-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):kchn:[:]{03C40682}      | You pick up the superior rinsed raven-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):kchn:[:]{03C40682}      | You drop the superior rinsed raven-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):kchn:[:]{03C40682}      | You pick up the superior rinsed raven-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(143270):e1ig:[#]{0292071C}      | You see a superior rinsed black grouse-skin (being prepared) here.
5/msglog.txt:(143270):e1ih:[#]{0292071C}      | You see a superior rinsed black grouse-skin here.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):e1ih:[:]{0292071C}      | You pick up the superior rinsed black grouse-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):e1ih:[:]{0292071B}      | You drop the superior rinsed black grouse-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):e1ii:[:]{0292071B}      | You pick up the superior rinsed black grouse-skin.
5/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):gbjb:[:]{07A00597}      | You pick up the superior winter rinsed elk-skin.
43/msglog.txt:(143270):j7id:[#]{06060066}      | You see a superior rinsed hare-skin here.
43/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):j7id:[:]{06060066}      | You pick up the superior rinsed hare-skin.
43/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):j7id:[:]{06080061}      | You drop the superior rinsed hare-skin.
43/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):j7id:[:]{06080061}      | You pick up the superior rinsed hare-skin.
43/msglog.txt:(143270):g8i9:[#]{06070061}      | You see a superior rinsed fox-skin (being prepared) here.
43/msglog.txt:(143270):g8i9:[#]{06070061}      | You see a superior rinsed fox-skin (being prepared) here.
43/msglog.txt:(143270):g8ij:[#]{06070061}      | You see a superior rinsed fox-skin here.
43/msglog.txt:(3C5A98):g8ij:[:]{06070061}      | You pick up the superior rinsed fox-skin.

the 0 character, Dearsu, died in April 2022, the 5 character, Behtter, died in December 2022, and the 43 character, Pekka, died in August 2022, but these were all long living characters, and I can see from other files that they were migrated from 3.70, so it's impossible to say what version these results were in, except that it was definitely before 3.72, and what we really want to know is whether superior furs are possible in 3.85.

[JP_Finn]

Plotinus,
I’m not 100%, but near certain that tanning doesn’t run encumbrance check. If you’re tanning elk, bear skin with a bag, birchbark basket or multiple bowl: game doesn’t prompt “with the load you’re carrying your task is more difficult “ paraphrased, I’m not  able to check the exact wording. Same as trapping. On the other hand timbercraft and fishing do prompt about the penalties, injuries, encumbrance, fatigue.

I don't think even the weight of the hide counts.  If you look at the weight you are carrying, the weight of the hide is immediately subtracted as soon as you begin a tanning process.

True, but if you attempt say active fishing (rod) at 99Fatigue, I've had pretty abysmal success, even the fatigue gets removed with the "restful" activity the active rod fishing is. I believe they're (hideworking -- fishing) calculated differently.
IME if the game does or doesn't prompt about encumbrance/fatigue/injuries: is if the physical penalties affect the task or not.

[Rukisama]

and what we really want to know is whether superior furs are possible in 3.85.

That's what I'm starting to lean toward: a bug in 3.85 (or perhaps it's intended?). I will say I've only tried stripping naked and dropping everything except the fur and fat a couple of times, it didn't work so I stopped bothering. It's not a huge problem, since I have enough fine furs to buy anything I could possibly want, it's just strange that a character with 100 Hideworking skill can't get a superior fur.