When it says, "you could have done better, but you can't make good out of bad."

[UniversalRanger]

What does that mean? Is it referring to the tool being used, the materials, or both?

So, I ended up making a shelter after I noticed that the Elk meat was saying, "stale." I decided to just roast it all and put it in a cellar. Then I think a fox ate a bunch of it, unless Grouses steal elk meat out of cellars. So, I surrounded it with the first trap listed.

So, this prompted me to look for more Elk to kill. I found some villages, and I realized that they'll trade items I make from wood. So, I'm making Javelins. I had made a bunch of boards for finishing one of the houses, and apparently my skill grew enough to make fine boards. I found that for one of the villages, they were pretty valuable . . . for about 7 or 8 of them. Now, they don't seem to want them.

So, I decided I would like to make fine javelins.

So, I cut down young spruces and make staves. Then I turn the staves into javelins. I was hoping my skill would begin to make fine javelins, but it keeps saying, "You could have done better, but you can't make good out of bad."

So, now I'm trying to figure out where the bad is. Is it the type of tree, because it doesn't seem like you can tell the difference once you cut them down. It doesn't say, "'Spruce' tree trunk," or "'Spruce' slender tree trunk." I assumed that meant that they're all the same once you cut them down. If not, what type of tree should I be cutting down for making fine staves/javelins?

Is it the quality of the trunks? Should I be cutting them down during only the daylight?

Is it the tools? This start is the one where there are two partially-done log cabins, the mother goes to the woods to perform rituals, and the father goes to the lake in the East, but they never return. I chose the winter season.
I am using the starting tools:
fine handaxe
kaumolais knife
splitting axe
broad axe
carving axe

Do I simply need to find a better tool somewhere, or maybe look for better trees to get trunks from, or is it simply a matter of just keep grinding until they finally start coming out at the fine level?

[PALU]

The crafting rules are somewhat complicated to understand sometimes:
- The quality of the source material usually* limits the quality you can achieve in items produced from it.
- Some material is always of "average" quality, such as tree trunks and slender tree trunks.
- In many cases the tools limit the quality of the product. I think the preferred tool may be of one or possibly two levels lower than the maximum result, while an "OK" tool has to be one level higher than the preferred one, and unsuitable tools (such as stone knives/axes) lowers the achievable further.
- Your appropriate crafting skill limits the quality of the result: you have to be good to create masterworks.
- Encumbrance reduces the value of the skill roll for tasks that rack up fatigue.
- Skills have limits, and the higher skill limit the better your chances to produce a good result, but the skill value within the level doesn't seem to matter.
- Good tools can provide a bonus to the roll, although I'm unclear if it's only masterworks, or if good helps as well (for combat only masterworks provides a bonus, if I understand it correctly).
- Some tasks use the "Common" skill, which is fixed and and cannot be changed in any way. Things produced using this skill are limited to decent quality and includes clothing. Thus, using masterworks quality furs for clothing is a huge waste, although I believe the source material quality provides a small bonus to the roll (meaning you might achieve a decent result even with such a poor roll that you'd normally get a poor result).

*Usually: Some "reactions" have a "noquality" modifier to the source material, which means it doesn't matter. Thus, you can make good and masterworks quality planks out of decent logs. Most reactions use a quality, though, so your only chance to get a masterworks (or even good) javelin is to find and buy a masterworks (good) staff to work with, as all staves you produce are capped at the decent level.

"Can't make good out of bad" means your skill roll was high enough to produce a better results than you got, but the material used limited the result. There's a corresponding message displayed when the tools are not up to the task.

This is an outline of the logic, not the full story...

[UniversalRanger]

"Can't make good out of bad" means your skill roll was high enough to produce a better results than you got, but the material used limited the result. There's a corresponding message displayed when the tools are not up to the task.

This is an outline of the logic, not the full story...

So, then this message likely means that my tool and skill are adequate to produce a better result, but the material caps are preventing a better result?

Would these caps possibly be broken through if I were to grind my felling of trees skill? To create javelins is a three step process. First you cut down young trees. Then you turn slender trunks into staves. Then you turn staves into javelins.

[PALU]

You understood the message correctly, and no, you can't produce a result better than the material provides, regardless of your skill and your tools.

- Cutting trees always result in decent quality results. Your skill and tools affect the time it takes, but not the quality of the wood for that task. Different kinds of trees do not yield different kinds of wood in UrW (at least not yet).
- As I said, you can find staves in villages and in villager inventories, and you can, very rarely, find ones that are good and even masterwork quality (my characters look for those, but so far no character has been able to get better than good quality javelins, even in the rare cases where a masterworks staff was found).

Also note that even with masterworks materials, 100% skill, 0% encumbrance, and masterworks tools of the preferred kind, the chances of producing masterworks items are low, somewhere around 15-20% in my experience. The only way to push it up further is to use a rabbit foot, and I don't know how much the odds are improved: I know for certain that it doesn't guarantee success, as I've failed using it (with all prerequisites at the highest possible level).

Also note that you can't produce bowls and mugs of a higher quality than decent because of the source material always being decent.