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Suggestion reply marathon | Oct 2019 - Mar 2020
Suggestion reply marathon - Oct 2019 - Mar 2020 This marathon thread is a compilation of suggestions and replies to them from six from month period of October 2019 to March 2020. Each reply can be also found in their respective forums threads. By the time the marathon was done around 15% of new suggested things were already featured in the game. Naturally some of these things will never end up in the game but replies are given nevertheless and thus the development roadmap hopefully grows clearer. After these replies my time to continue ponderings on these very subjects rarely continues, but the topics stay open and discussion can naturally go on till the end of time. Here we go... Changing maximum lengh of thread/cord/... possible in recipes to 16 bits https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5197.0 Quote There are a few cases where you'd really want quite substantial lengths of material when crafting items. Currently this affects mods only, but once those kinds of crafting recipes make it into the game itself they may cause issues. No issues in sight. Then one just selects multiple lesser-than-required length tying equipment. Eg. if 1500 ft of cord is needed you can use a stack of 100 * 15 ft cords. Making location of bird thief quest traps a little bit easier https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=4556.0 Quote The Bird Thief quest can be a real pain when the target area is coniferous, as visibility is poor to start with, and there's a significant risk of the traps being obscured for the player by trees on top of that. The description talks about human footprints, so it would make sense to actually have human footprints in the area, similar to how the Wounded Adventurer quest has animal footprints (but the human wouldn't remain in the area, obviously). I like the idea of footprint possibility. That would make sense indeed. Should this get added at some point the footprints visibility would naturally also depend on terrain, elements and character's tracking skill. Wishlist https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5204.0 Firstly, it's a good policy to pinpoint a suggestion or two rather than post lists. That way it's easier to find, read and discuss these things. Quote Have all items on your animals be available in the trade screen. Would surely be handy with tons of items on tons of animals but as this is an interface limitation getting to tweak it now is way too costly compared to the importance. Quote An auto-pause when spotting wild animals. If not having an auto-pause is a feature to make stalking pray harder, then I understand. There's an auto-pause when spending time in one location. When moving about I feel this isn't needed. Quote Multi-select in the action menu. My use case would be to unleash/tie all or some animals at a time, equip ski stick/skis/paddle (my courtyard is only accessible through water or a gauntlet of traps). I see the point, but unfortunately the internal design limits things like from being easily adjusted. As it's a matter of playstyle how much keyboard jockeying we all have to do on game-daily basis this also feels very costly compared to importance. Quote Ask which target to attack when multiple beings are standing on a tile. Additionally have the attack repeat function (key: 3) remember who you last attacked and keep attacking them for each successive attack. That target selection is done. I feel it's best to keep attack repeat target selectable as sometimes we want to repeat the same good attack at different nearby targets. It's hard to say which is the most common attack-repeat usage for the majority of players, but I don't recall anybody suggesting a different functionality earlier. Quote Allow non-weapons to be thrown when both hands are wielding something. My use case is throwing bait on traps. Currently I either drop bait and push it on a trap or un-equip one hand and throw the bait. Neat and simple idea. Will browse the throwing code and consider. This could be implemented so that such throwing would be always allowed in non-attack manner, ie. if the target isn't a creature. Then you could also toss a branch into the fire with equipped hands etc. Quote Crossbows should not require the 2nd hand slot to hold an arrow. Crossbow items if loaded should say what type of arrow is loaded in its name and you should be able to use the action menu (or some other way) to unload/reload them . Once loaded you should be able to swap an unloaded crossbow with a loaded one from your inventory. Two slots occupied reflects the fact that proper crossbow usage needs two hands, and carrying loaded crossbow is simply a risk one wouldn't take. Hold it carelessly with one hand and you might easily fire it while running or moving about. (As an interesting trivia, ancient Finns had very unique way of shooting with crossbows holding it at about the hip height. It's quite slow and delicate process to start with.) Quote Have a repeat the exact last crafting recipe key. My use case is smoking/drying/roasting batches of 19 per cord or 10 for roasting. Preferably it would be press shift-r, a list of what you are about to craft shows up in the message log and then press space to confirm crafting. I see the point, and we try to ease keyboard jockeying every now and then little by little. This would be biggie, and trickier than it seems at first. Can't say much more about this right now, have to consider carefully. Quote In the eating screen remember what you last ate and have it automatically selected. It should work like that already. Quote Separate talk/command to shift-c for talking to people and something else for ordering/interacting with your pets. Unless all my dogs are visible to me, the chat selection is bogged down by all the names of dogs not visible to me. It's very likely that we get into separating chat from commanding in the near future. How it works now is very clumsy even if you weren't a dog hoarder. Quote Digging holes should be a resumable task. If you stop digging you lose all your progress and the dirt you dug out magically goes back in the unfinished hole. This is done already. Quote Have items of the same exact type and weight stack with ones already packed on animals instead of making a separate entry. That's how it should work alrady. Big stacks may break the rule, though. I'd have to check the case individually to get a better idea. Quote Have animals/pets have the same unique item limit that a player has. Currently animals have a ~20 unique item limit and you’ll receive a “Burden of x is too much for “animal name” to carry!” despite having weight/load capacity left. We've imagined pack animals being used for carrying carefully selected items. Some slender trunks and bags of rye, maybe dozen of furs, and pile of meat. I'm aware that if they are used as walking general stores the limit is hit. However, expanding animal data is bound to take place somewhere in the future, but needs to be linked with other animal structure related overhauls. The actual timing can't be predicted. Quote When walking over items you’ll see two different font colors, blue if there’s a single item and black if there’s multiple ones. Please use one font color (blue or something else) for both cases so that it is easier to distinguish items on the ground from other things. It's been like this forever with no alternate suggestions heard out loud so in that sense it's better not to touch it. Making Clothing https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5224.0 Quote Shouldn't making fur and leather clothing be Hideworking instead of Common? Clothmaking is very simplified, and we've been thinking of completely new "clothmaking" skill along with some complexity to the process, but these things have delayed and delayed. Generic clothmaking/tailoring skill is also debatable add as technically textilecraft is again very different from leatherworking. And one can also be excellent fur tanner but a lousy clothmaker - so having the both under hideworking have felt tricky too. I guess because of all this hesitation a proper move hasn't been made. But yes, fur and leather clothmaking could be made prone to hideworking. (Harnmaster, my all-time favourite inspirational rpg system, has it like that too.) And we could then feature textilecraft later on. We'll consider. It requires adding some additional complexity before the mere change feels justified, though. Goats! https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5227.0 Quote Goats are hardy breeds, producing fur, meat and milk. Yes, goats would fit in the game world nicely. One decent thing to consider among so many others. ft of Cord https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5234.0 Quote Instead of having a separate length of cord why not make them all 1ft? The item would then be called "ft of Cord" and the length would be in the quantity. Doesn't feel like a reasonable adjustment - especially just so shortly after long-awaited measure of length system has been built up. Rafts! https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5200.0 Quote So, it takes 3 500lbs logs to make an 80lbs raft? Raft weight shall be fixed. It's indeed way too low, 80 pounds currently. Numerous raft related additions are also being planned, for example small raft from slender trunks. Also, rowing the raft should be way slower than going with a punt. Moving a heavy raft with paddle should be both slow and quite a bit exhausting as well. Physician skill healing party members https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5241.0 Quote I was thinking, instead of letting party members heal automatically maybe u would need the physician skill? Then ppl would need to choose if they want to make themselves a beefy character or if they boost their physician skill and aim to get help from others, perhaps? It's not good to make NPCs completely dependant on character's physician skill - they have it also in their own skills galore. But importance of character's physician skills is already featured to some extent as you can use it to treat bleeding wounds of your companions. Some of these can be the kind of wounds which NPCs don't always necessarily manage to stop by themselves. Other physician processes could be also extended to allow treating NPCs (and pets), and that would be interesting indeed. A Few Ideas: Agricultural help, Snake fangs and more… https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5242.0 Firstly, it's a good policy to pinpoint a suggestion or two rather than post lists. That way it's easier to find, read and discuss these things. Quote Agricultural help from companions. I recently was harvesting my herb patches and I had a companion. As I cut down the nettles, I wished I could ask him to either thresh the plants behind me or pick them up for me. Yep. The ways that companions can help out the player character need to keep increasing. And this surely should be included. Quote Putting branches in an ice hole to help delay refreezing. This would be an interesting trivial addition. It immediately comes to mind where to find data about how much this should delay the freezing. Quote Player characters shouldn't start with perfect knowledge of traps. Agreed. And player characters shouldn't start with perfect knowledge of all the other crafts and constructions either. It would suit the game world perfectly is if things needed to be learned gradually and in more culturally dependant fashion. Quote Snakes should drop fangs/teeth. Maybe could be a spell component. A Sage request item? Would be nice little detail, among many others. We'll see if a proper in-game context comes in our way at some point. Quote Trading with different types of people should mean what items you trade with should have different values. Yep. This is the trading direction we'll turn to at some point. The timing can't be predicted, though. It needs detailed planning and some unhurried time to concentrate on trading as a whole. Traps should be nerfed https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5248.0 Quote I've been playing for years now and the big thing I've noticed is how incredibly easy the game becomes after setting up a single trap-fence. Usually on the border of a open mire and a coniferous forest or coniferous mire. Or by just keeping a trap-fence around my settlement I often have an elk or reindeer diving straight into one of my traps once every two months. It's quite dangerous to go adjusting the traps as whole based on only few character's playstyle. Trapping is also frustratingly difficult to some at some times. I'd really need to see the trap-setting you have found all-too-easy, and then see what is actually the thing to tweak. For example, if settlements are surrounded by trap-fences and huge trap complexes that costantly seem to get catch we should better make certain animals more scared of human presence, or human activity, rather than to adjust trap effectiveness. I find the trapping system working quite nicely, but I'm quite moderate and traditional trapper in the game. So, I could first have look at people's trapping-sites from savegames if you find them unjustly fruitful. Difficulty Scaling https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5250.0 Quote I believe the game would benefit from adding difficulty options during character creation. What I suggest are things that affect the entire game world such as animal spawn rates, bandit spawns, average item quality in villages, average temperature and so on. All of which intended to make the game harder only. Difficulty levels such as these isn't my cup of tea. To me this would mean a whole different approach to the whole game design. I'd rather tweak the game mechanics and add content to feature more of that desired difficulty, and allow playstyle choices to affect how harsh and risky character's life will be. Field dress/quarter big game https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5251.0 Quote Option to field dress or quarter game. It might make the difference in weight reduction to be able to pick or pack carcasses and transport back to a preferred processing location. Would be a reasonable addition, and working on this would also turn focus to maybe adding organs and blood too. We'll consider. Heavy carcasses, big elks and such, would probably still remain a burden to transport as field dressing on average reduces the living weight by 30% or so. [naming: last word] functionality extension https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5258.0 Quote I propose a small extension that could greatly improve customisation and simplify many mod recipes I've seen. Hmm. Gotta check the code and consider. It may seem simple and quick thing to add on the outisde, but as the game hasn't been designed for modding things can be quite a mess in the inside. Arrowheads https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5259.0 Quote Instead of just gathering common rocks in order to form arrows, why not craft arrowheads from stone/rock. It would be interesting to do flintnapping, or to carve arrowheads from bone and antlers. I'm all in for making archery related stuff more detailed. It's currently all too easy to make deadly arrows from generic branches and rocks. Flint isn't commonly found, but arrowheads from bone and other rocks would do. Also, acquiring arrowsheads by trading is a thing that I'm in for. I could spend lots and lots of time for some archery gear overhauls. We'll see what happens at what point. Name of animal on Animal commands https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=5261.0 Quote Can we get the name of the animal on the Animal commands. Yes, that would help owners of many animals to be sure the right one got commanded. Simple addition, we'll put it to effect. Choosing target for attack if they're occupying a single tile https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=4979.0 Quote A simple menu: "Attack which target?" please! Just letting you all know that this feature is coming up. More Tracking info https://www.unrealworld.fi/forums/index.php?topic=4967.0 Quote an tracker at a certain level should be able to see if his prey is crippled by it's gait and I should also be able to determine relative size small, big, from tracks these small changes would make it easier follow specific animal in a herd. This is coming up. Both limping and animal size info will be added to tracking description. End of part 1/3. Read on ... April 28, 2020, 04:22:57 PM |
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[Spoilers] Which bow is best? Aiming to resolve confusion around bows
There's a regular debate around the bow accuracy stat on the wiki, and it left me wondering... Are shortbows really more accurate than Northern Bows? What's going on here? So, having recently found myself with extra time on my hands thanks to the global pandemic, I fired up ghidra and spent some time decompiling UnReal World 3.62 to see what's really going on. Decompiling code isn't exactly straightforward; one gets the instructions executed by the CPU, not the original source code, so there's a lot of piecing things together and sleuthing required. But I think I've managed to get to the bottom of this particular open question, and Sami has been extremely kind in letting me share my results. Before I get into spoilers, I want to point out that the in-game manual on missile combat gives an accurate description that appears to be confirmed by code: Quote from: Missile Combat Success at firing an arrow or throwing a weapon depends on the applicable weapon skill. This is a common combat rule and missile attacks are no exception, but your performance only determines the initial quality of the shot/throw, ie. how much your aiming is off and how accurately you manage to send your missile on its course. The worse your performance the wider the cone of spread is possible, so it's not always guaranteed that a good shot/throw will result in a good strike at exact location of impact. Even a minor deviation from the intended trajectory will accumulate over distance. Any shot/throw is bound to hit better at close range, and the further the target, the more precision is required. Should your missile miss the original target or even fly completely wild, it can still hit something else on its course - unfortunately this could be also your own dog. Quote from: Ranged Target A target that is being attacked by a missile weapon can't choose any conscious defense maneuver as in melee combat, but moving targets can still avoid getting hit. This defense possibility for moving targets is automated and it doesn't matter if the target is aware of the attack or not. A target is considered moving if it is actively running, flying, escaping etc. from one location to another, but also when it's making fast movements in its place like when engaged in a fight. The faster the target is moving the better chance it has to make it out of the way or to make a lucky movement in its place and unintentionally dodge the missile. This is based on the target's actual mobility and manner of moving, so if the target is slowed down due to physical penalties or for whatever reason, its chances to avoid missile attacks are lowered accordingly. Naturally, it's not only the target's speed that matters but the missile velocity as well. It's easier for any moving target to make it out of the way of low-velocity missiles, but very fast animals will be challenging to hit even with bow and arrow - and exceedingly challenging if they are both fast and small. So straight up, the game tells you the important factors involved are:
None of this mentions "weapon accuracy", and Sami has confirmed in a PM to me that: Quote from: Sami If the bow accuracy would really be radically different between bows it surely would have been mentioned in the game information. So I can confidently say that the accuracy figure on the wiki is extremely misleading. It does mean something, but you are almost certainly never going to encounter that in the game. Read the spoiler section below if you really want to know, and also have a little more bow mechanics revealed. Spoiler: show Many thanks again to Sami for not only an incredible game that's brought me much joy throughout the years, but also for his understanding and support when I decided to dig further into its mysteries! ~ Teellox July 21, 2020, 04:49:27 AM |
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[3.63 - Steam] Villagers not responding to predator
Look at how lovely the wolf enjoying sows in the pen. Perhaps that's how dogs get tamed from wolves? And the villagers are just being so chill, I wander if I am the only one get surprised by a lone wolf calmly stay in pen and without being aggressive. August 21, 2020, 06:21:14 AM |
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Re: "The Challenge"
Beginning of Dead Month Day 1 67% injured, unable to stand. Destroyed my items, decided to head west and veer south around trees. I set myself to stealth mode to train my stealth up while travelling. I am in a spruce mire, so i gather some rocks and some cloudberries, one of the only berries that are worth gathering at this time of year for thirst (you can stay abundant on them if you gather enough). lingonberries normally wouldn't be worth it because they take a long time to gather and don't provide much liquid in exchange, but because i'm gathering fatigue by crawling around, I do gather them when my fatigue is over 10% because i need to waste time anyway to defatigue myself. I also gather one of each kind of unknown mushroom so that I can practice identifying them. Whenever I get cool, I look for a tree trunk and light it, then stay by it until I'm warm again, gathering branches, making a stone knife, making torches. I pay attention to the terrain, when I reach a lichenous pine forest, i abandon the southwest direction to go in a circle around the edge of the lichenous pine forest and am rewarded by finding a hill, which i also go around the edge of, but no mountains this time. This won't always pay off but it will more often than not. I resume the southwest heading. When evening hits, I keep going, looking for a fallen tree trunk, then light it on fire and eat some lingonberries so my stomach will be full and I can sleep the full night long instead of waking up from hunger every few hours. Day 2 62% injured, unable to stand. I continue southwest. My method of carefully exploring near lichenous pine forests pays off and I reach a mountain. I peek on the peak and discover I'm near north eastern Sartola. Since I can't use the F6 map I don't know in which direction I'm near it but I'm going to keep heading southwest. However, I can see another mountain two tiles north of me, so I'm going to zoom back in and check out that first, because I'd really like to find some water and I can't see any from here, even though it's late morning, so this is as good as the visibility is going to get. I don't see any water from the other mountain either, so back south to the first and then continuing southwest. Found another mountain. If I go northwest one tile and then straight north I1ll hit a small lake. I'll stay there tonight and then come back. There's another mountain to the west of me, but I want to heal my wounds a bit. I find a log near the lake and push it onto the ice to break it, then pull it back. I heal my wounds, light the fire, get some sleep. I wake up in the middle of the night in the rain so i do a little rock fishing. No fish. Day 3 57% injured, unable to stand. I head back to the mountain, look up but I can't see anything new so time to head due west to the next mountain. From the next mountain i can see another lake one tile northwest and a bunch of tiles north so i'm going to head to that for the night. each tile is 64 little squares wide so i just count how many times i go left and if i hit 128 (2 tiles) then i start going right again instead. Day 4 53% injured, unable to stand. I didn't make it to the lake before i fell asleep so i continue towards the lake. It wasn't very far away. Went back to the mountain, still can't see any new mountains, still north east of sartola, so I go back to my southwest pattern. I'm cold and exhausted and it's evening so light a log and go to sleep but unfortunately wake up at midnight vigorous, so I light a torch and continue on. By the small hours, I'm bitterly cold so I light another tree trunk. This is the problem with travelling at night. I wait by the fire until I'm tired and then sleep the rest of the night. Day 5 48% injured, finally I can stand. 12% starvation Now that I can stay this is going to go better. I'll have to waste less time recovering because walking isn't tiring like crawling. I'm not too worried about the starvation, after 4 fulls days I'm 12% starved so that's about 3% starvation per day. I can survive another month and it won't take me that long to find a village. I do have to hurry because it's only going to get colder but for now I can light a fire whenever i get cold and still have lots of time for walking. Next month I won't be able to walk 20 steps without going from hot to numbingly cold. This means no more berry gathering. I have about 7lb of berries and I'm only going to eat them if I go multiple days without finding water and am in danger of dying of thirst, or if they start to go stale. I happened upon another mountain. There's another mountain southwest of here, 6 tiles west, more tiles than that to the south so I'm going to head for that. From this mountain there's another mountain to the west, just one tile south. And from here the are some mountains to the south. North west of those mountains is a small lake where i'll camp tonight. Day 6 45% injured, 15% starved Heading back to the mountain, now that it's morning I can see another mountain to the south, 6 tiles to the east, so heading that way now. And from there, there's one directly southeast a few tiles away. Still "near northern sartola" I'm really curious if i'm heading in the right direction or not but bouncing between mountains is the safest way to go. The next mountain is 8 tiles west and 14 tiles south which is going to be harder not to lose my count and i might overshoot it or something but if I don't make it there'll always be another mountain. I made it there safely and now there's one just one tile south and a long way to the west and it's near a lake! I'm spending the night at the lake and then continuing on tomorrow. Day 7 41% injured, 16% starved No fish at the lake, healed my injuries, heading back to the mountains. There are a few mountains in a row. From here, if I had northwest until I hit the water and then west until I hit the hill and then go northwest one more tile I should hit another mountain but if I don't hit the water where I expect to then I just need to follow along the coast and I'll still hit the mountain. And now it says I'm in north eastern Sartola. I don't see any roads yet but it's only a matter of time. If I go to the southeast edge of these hills and then go straight south, then follow the lake counterclockwise until just before I reach the hill and then go straight south again, I'll reach the next mountain. I must have miscalculated because I never found this lake but sooner or later I'll find something. I found a thicket! I checked all four sides in case there was a road or other village-like tile near it but there wasn't. it was a long shot, groves are often near villages but thickets are random. I have come to a lake. I'm pretty sure it's not the one I was aiming for. I'm going to explroe around it. I drop 3 spruce twigs near the shore so that i don't go around in circles if I go all the way around. I spend the night at the shore Day 8 38% injured, 19% starved I'll continue this another day. August 23, 2020, 09:28:29 PM |
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Re: "The Challenge"
Day 8 38% injured, 19% starved Continuing around the lake, I found a mountain. Now I'm "near eastern Sartola." I guess I'll continue around this lake till I get to some hills and then go west to the next mountain. Continuing around the lake, I see a forest reindeer carcass in the ice. I'm going to go get it, but first I'm going to pull a trunk to the shore and light it on fire because the water is very cold. Miraculously, I didn't fall through the ice. With the stone knife I was able to get 29 cuts of meat from the forest reindeer carcass, which will keep me fed for a while. I roast only 10 of the meat cuts because the stale timer resets when you roast them and I want to be able to eat all of them before they spoil. Day 9 33% injured, 19% starved I wake up and my tanning forest reindeer hide is ready to be picked up, my fire is burnt down to embers. I pick it up and go back on my way. I'm going to wait until I'm cold again to do more tanning, I don't have time to waste. I reach the next mountain but I don't see any other mountains. There's a lake to the west so I'm going to head towards that. Going to go around it, then when I hit the lichenous pine forest west of the lake, I'm going to go west to the next lake and then go around that. We'll see. Again I leave 3 spruce twigs by the lake to mark my place so if I see it again I'll know I've gone all the way around. I need to pay more attention when circling around the ice, I keep walking onto the ice and falling through, but while warming up by a fire I finish tanning my 9 lb forest reindeer fur. Next time I light a fire I'll make some clothes but now I'm going to sleep. Day 10 27% injured, 12% starved Continuing around the lake. I reach my spruce twigs again so now I'm just going to go west. I find a large lichenous pine forest area with a hill and explore around it but don't find any mountains so I go west some more. Eventually, I find a lake and drop some branches and start a circle around it. Found a mountain by exploring a lichenous pine forest but it's too dark to see very much 'm going to head north to a lake and then come back in the morning. I wake up in the snow so I make a shirt and then go back to sleep. Day 11 24% injured, 12% starved From the mountain, if I go south one tile then east to the lake, then due south I'll hit another mountain. I'm now "Near Sartola" so maybe I'm not heading in the right idrection but we'll see. From this mountain if I go southwest till I hit the lake then follow it clockwise then I'll hit another mountain. While going around that lake I found a squirrel so I took some time to throw rocks at it. At the mountain, I see that if I continue along this lake I'll hit a river. rivers are great. There are often villages along rivers, and there may be other mountains by the river later, and it will also lead to the sea. If I hit the sea, I'll continue south until I find another river and then go along it until I get to a lake and then go around the south side of the river. I think this is the best path to finding a village. Another option, if I get lucky with finding more mountains, is to pay attention to when I stop being "Near Sartola" and see if I reach sartola proper, then if I pass through Sartola and come out the other side I could turn around and weave back and forth through sartola until I find a village. I spend some time gathering heathers but I get cold so I light a fire for the night and skin and butcher my squirrel carcass. Day 12 18% injured, 10% starved Continuing along the river. I've come across a lot of fords but I haven't crossed any of them. I encounter a lichenous pine forest and veer away from the river to explore it and am rewarded with a hill, and eventually a mountain. The mountain turns out to be bordering the same river i was following so i would've found it anyway. It's late afternoon now so I'll head back to the water and light a fire and make some fur footwear with the rest of my forest reindeer fur and squirrel fur. Day 13 15% injured, 3% starved Well I'm in Sartola now and it's snowing a lot. Next mountain: follow river to the rapids, then continue following the river west until it turns to the south, then head straight south to the mountain. Still in Sartola! And if I had south from here I'll hit another river and there's a mountain, i just go south to the water, west to the hill, north to the lichenous pine forest, west to the mountain. From here, south to the river and there will be some more mountains along the river. Followed this chain of mountains and now I can see this river joins the one above it to the west of me so I want to go back the way I came and around it to continue along its south bank, or maybe venture across one of the fords. It turned out there was a ford just south of the cliff so I lay down and inched my way across the surface. Success! The ice didn't break. But I forgot to look where the mountains on the south side of the river are so back to the cliff. Looks like if I go to one tile east of the second rapids and then south I'll find a mountain. Looks like there's a river south of me too but I don't see any other mountains yet. I'm going to go back the way I came and continue west along the river. Day 14 13% injured, 0% starved I reached a mountain at the end of the yesterday and camped with a fire. Now it's morning and zoomed out I see I am once again "Near Sartola", so I will go southeast to the next river and head back east through Sartola until I reach the other side again. Spent the day heading east along the river, nothing of note happened. Day 15 12% injured, 0% starved Almost out of food again, but it'll be a month till I starve. Found some more mountains. The next one is just east of the second rapids and north from there. And then back south to the river, follow it to the hill, then two tiles northeast of the hill. and then back to the hill, and the one tile west and a bunch of tiles north. Going east to the lake for the night and going to view this mountain again in the morning. Day 16 11% injured, 0% starved Headed back to the river. The next mountain is south of the river, one tile west of the rapids and a few tiles south but it looks like the river is ending in a small lake soon so maybe I'll get there via ford or maybe i'll get there by going around. Day 17 8% injured, 0% starved Starting to starve again. I'm in Southern Sartola and I don't see any other mountains from this one so I'm just going to keep heading west along the south side of this river. I've been carrying a rock equipped and throwing it at any bird I see and finally got lucky. Day 18 7% injured, 0% starved continuing around the river. Day 19 5% injured, 3% starved continuing around the river. Thoroughly explored a large lichenous pine forest but no luck this time. Finally found a mountain and I've passed through Sartola again so going to head north back to the river, spend the night, and try going east again. Managed to catch a pike with a rock! Day 20 4% injured, 4% starved From here I should go east to one tile east of the hills, then south to the next hill, then east to the next mountain. And then one tile east and a few tiles south. And then one tile east and 2 north. From here I don't see any mountains so I'm just going to east and hope for the best. No mountains, but I did finally find a bit of water so I'll camp here for the night and then circumambulate it. Day 21 2% injured, 0% starved The ground goes up quite steeply just a little bit around the lake so I follow it, find a hill, follow that, find a mountain and now I know I'm back in Southern Sartola and I have some more mountains to check out. Next is one tile north and a few to the east. I see a field to the north! I don't see a village but where there's a field there's a village. So if I go straight north until I hit the lichenous pine forest, then straight west until I hit the hill, then from the hill I go north one tile to the lichenous pine forest, north one tile to the heathland and then I go west from there. Once I hit the field I don't know, I guess I'll go west for a bit, say 5 tiles, then 1 tile north and 8 tiles east and 1 tile north and 8 tiles west again -- or we'll see. I found a road and then I followed along it and then I saw dog tracks and then I found a village. So from here on out it'll be smooth sailing. Now I help a villager out with some chores and hopefully get a better knife out of it. While I was wandering around, I was collecting feathers when I saw them so I'm going to make some arrows to sell. Day 22 0% injured, 2% starved Unfortunately, I didn't have enough feathers to make enough arrows to get a broad knife, even with my reward. I borrowed a fine axe in the village to make a wooden bowl so I can carry some water around with me, and a wooden shovel in case I wasn't too late for digging but it is. I guess my next step is to make a trap fence without pit traps, I'll buy a leather rope from the village so I can make a stone axe and a bear trap for my trap fence. August 25, 2020, 05:34:12 PM |
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Re: "The Challenge"
key ideas: * pick a direction. East is probably bad because you might wind up north of njerpez territory where there's nothing. North can be good because there are lots of mountains so it'll be easy to find one and easy to go from mountain to mountain, but it can be harder to find water, and northern villages don't have fields or roads between them so it can be harder to stumble on one. This is offset by the more mountains I guess. South can be good because there's lots of water and you're basically guaranteed to hit a river eventually. West can be good, you'll probably hit a river or the sea. * pay attention to the terrain. If it's sloping down, follow it to find water. You can drink water in pine mires and open mires safely. Get some cloudberries early on (spruce mire, pine mire, open mire), but use them for security as a last resort -- if you're too thirsty to stand, you'll have them. If you eat them when you're only a little thirsty and then you find some water soon, then the berries are gone. I still have my berries by the time reach the village. You probably don't need more than 5 lb of berries and you're in a race against time with the cold. * rivers and lakes are your friend, especially early on. It's pretty common for animals to misjudge the ice. If you explore all rivers and lakes thoroughly, you might find one dead animal per season like I did, more if it's a herd animal * when the land slopes up, explore thoroughly to find a mountain. once you find a mountain, you can bounce from mountain to mountain for a while if you pay attention to where you have to go. * whenever you're cool, start looking for a tree trunk and light a fire. * pick a direction and stick to it, but once you find your way into a cultural territory, if you pass through it to the other side, try to turn around and pass through it in a snake S part, sooner or later you'll find a road. * don't waste time fishing; it's really hard with a rock and you're in a race against time, but it's okay to fish a little if you wake up in the middle of the night and you want to wait until morning to start moving again, because you might get lucky. August 25, 2020, 05:41:02 PM |
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Re: Who were "Njerpez" ?
Quote and user1805 got all hot and bothered by the fact that Novgorod was primary inspiration for their creation. It is my understanding that this thread leans a bit more to the funnier side. For user1805 didn't get upset about Novgorod being used as the source of inspiration - user1805 got upset about half-educated indie game creators carelessly throwing around claims like "it is now verified that thing X is a historical fact", and was like "how the hell do THEY think they know that?" Which, naturally, appeared funny for the rest of us, for we didn't understand the misunderstandings of user1805. Apparently, user1805 thought Sami was stating claims about a real historical tribe, when Sami meant to speak about fictional Njerpez and him making verifications about the code simulating Njerpez behavior. Since user1805 has not been commenting after this clarification was made, I'm not sure if the original topic is settled, but I hope so =) Also, the original source of the confusion was that in the game the Njerpez are not attempting to conquer the entire UnReal World, but mostly just raiding around the eastern corner of the world. User1805 wanted to cite historical sources against that, presumably thinking that in the game the tribe should be reaching further to the north and to the west, since that is what Novgorod historically did. So, yes, earlier I was also thinking if I should ask Dark Art for more clarification on mentioning the Moscow Russia - I was waiting for user1805 to comment, but that didn't happen. I repeat; user1805 wrote more in the line that "THE NJERPEZ SHOULD BE AIMING TO EXPAND ALL THE WAY TO THE WEST AND TO THE NORTH, so how de hell do you claim that you know that they are raiding on the eastern part of the finnic territory?" I mean, to me it seemed that Dark Art also slightly misunderstood what user1805 tried to say, and then launched counter-arguments against a claim which maybe wasn't even made earlier in this thread. But this is all just human, it happens to all of us so often. And that is why I have this silly habit of stopping to ask for clarifications =) So what do we have here, then? If I understand correctly, everyone in this thread agrees that historically speaking Novgorod expanded their territory and raided neighbouring tribes. (Just like many other tribes did as well, and how numerous computer games are today about "be the hero, lead your tribe conquering more territory"). Also, I hope that everyone also agrees that in the game The Njerpez are not, and they do not need to be, 100% historically representation of Novgorod or any other bunch of people. It is fiction, and serves the purposes of the game world. But it has it sources and inspiration in history and Finnish folk stories.(And at this point I'd like to emphasize the "folk stories"-aspect. So, the most exact answer to the question "who were Njerpez" is: "they are inspired by the 'Raiders From the East' theme in the Finnish folk stories', and those folk stories in turn have their source in hundreds of years of hostilities with Finnish and Russian tribes. So, everyone agrees the central topics of this thread, yes? Anyone, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (for personally I dislike "top-down" mentality as much as user1805 does.) And then in addition to the original question this thread has had side paths, which is just natural for any human discussion. People feel a need to say aloud a few related thoughts which pop to their mind while reading the main discussion. So here we are; a few misunderstandings, a few semi-related side-remarks, a lot of good historical sources given. August 31, 2020, 06:17:39 PM |
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Re: Who were "Njerpez" ?
True, of course Moscow or its Muskovia wasnt around the time of hypothetical Njerpez. I retract mentioned earlier parallels. In regards of Muskovia's raids or any other acts of aggression towards whats now known as Finland I think you'd better ask our hosts here.
August 31, 2020, 09:43:12 PM |
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Re: Who were "Njerpez" ?
Da, no problem! Also, I'm sorry my writing was again a little bit too vague. I didn't mean to claim that during XV-XVI centuries there were constant raids by Muscovites into Finnish territory. Nor did I mean to portray Finnic tribes as mere innocent victims. For me these are such self-evident basic premises that sometimes I forget to mention them. Like, earlier in this thread I said: "And not just Novgorod expansion, but probably also Finnic tribes launching (counter)raids into Novgorod territory.", indicating that I'm aware that there was warfare to both directions, raids and counter-raids, strikes and revenge-strikes, and revenge-revenge-revenge -strikes and so on. (Also, Finnish peasants had a regular habit of establishing new settlements in the no-mans land on the Russian side of the border, thus making the border less meaningful, irritating the Russian side when they realized that Finnic tribes are silently expanding their territory. But most of this was not Finnic tribes raiding Russian villages, but just Finnich peasants doing slash-and-burn agriculture in uninhabitated woodlands. This can be considered as some sort of passive warfare, the western side of the peace treaty showing that they don't respect the treaty that much for they feel free to gain new lands east of the border.) The linked article about Muscovites besieging Vybord also says: "The following year Russian generals Vasily Kosoy and Andrey Chelyadnin severely devastated Swedish Finland as far as Hämeenlinna (Tavastehus)." - sure, that doesn't mean constant raids. I only meant to post a example that it indeed was possible that there were Muscovite raids into Finnish territory during XV-XVI centuries, and that there is historical evidence of at least one such raiding campaign led by Kosoy and Chelyadnin. But, sure - this is getting severely offtopic and not that much related to the real-life inspirations of UnReal World game world. To conclude, I'd like to emphasize that personally I have absolutely no intention to paint this or that historical tribe as "bad" or "evil". I'm not interested in blaming anyone. I think that if we examine history, the best we do is to try learn from the history, so that we and the future generations wouldn't need to repeat the mistakes of the past. Finnic and Russian tribes fighting each other and launching raids and counter-raids has been a historical fact. Personally I wish that things like these would stay in the history and happen no more. I have Russian friends and I've visited the country and I love many aspects of the Russian culture, especially the arts, music and literature. September 01, 2020, 12:12:30 PM |
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Re: Diary of Mikka Kaumolainen, a slave no more
Nice writing, and if we wouldn’t practice English (or any other languages) how would we ever improve? Hunt with ancestors Mikka. September 07, 2020, 08:03:17 PM |
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